Insurance can seem complicated from the outside. Policies, premiums, inspections, underwriting guidelines, carrier appetites. It can feel like a world full of jargon and acronyms.
But at its core, insurance is a people business.
That was the central theme of a recent discussion I had with Aquala Loyd, an underwriting director, and Shellie Eubanks, an independent insurance agent.
Together, we explored the relationship between agents and underwriters, how they approach risk from different perspectives, and why trust and communication remain the foundation of successful insurance partnerships.
Before we could talk about the relationship, we needed to start with the basics.
Scott: Shellie, what does it mean to be an independent agent? What's your role?
Shellie: Our job as an independent agent is basically to shop the coverage for our customer. Different companies have different appetites, and you have to know what type of coverage each company is willing to write so that when you go to shop the coverage, you know where to submit it and get the best price for the customer.
Aquala: That's right on the money. Agencies are there to advocate for the customers and get them the best coverage and price possible to ensure their needs.
The underwriting side approaches the process from a different angle.
Scott: Once an agency submits an account, what happens on the underwriting side?
Aquala: We review all the data that's on that application and see, does it fit within our guidelines? We look at the account, evaluate the risk, go through the underwriting process, and then create a quote that gets sent back to the agency partner.
I've always viewed the process as a series of sales conversations.
The agent sells the account to the underwriter. The underwriter sells the account internally. Then the underwriter sells the solution back to the agent.
At every stage, someone is advocating for the customer.
One of the biggest differences between independent agencies and direct writers or captives is access to markets.
Shellie: Being an independent, we have contracts with hundreds of markets. We can take an account out to several markets, and that's how we can shop for the best price. Not only price, but coverage and underwriting requirements.
Roof age is a good current example. Many carriers have tightened their roof requirements. A homeowner with a 21-year-old roof may no longer qualify with one carrier but could still be acceptable to another.
Shellie: We have the ability to go out and shop many carriers to find someone that would take someone like that. If you were a direct writer, you'd be stuck with the underwriting requirements of that one carrier.
That flexibility has become increasingly valuable in today's marketplace.
Insurance professionals use the phrase underwriting appetite all the time, but it's not always obvious what it means.
Scott: Aquala, what exactly is underwriting appetite?
Aquala: The underwriting appetite just means the type of businesses or risk that an insurance carrier will take on. A restaurant located in a frame, unsprinklered building may fall outside one carrier's appetite because the potential loss is too severe. Another carrier may specialize in exactly that higher type of risk.
We have an imaginary scale. We look at a risk and ask: Is this [loss] going to ruin our week? Is it going to ruin our month? Our quarter? Our year? Or is it going to ruin the company? If it ruins your career, don't do it. If it ruins the year, probably don't do it. But if it ruins your week or your month, we can live with that and make that type of decision on an account.
The key point is that appetite changes.
Carriers continuously monitor trends, profitability, legislation, claims activity, and emerging risks. What made sense five years ago may not make sense today.
When I asked Aquala what makes a strong relationship between agents and underwriters, she didn't hesitate.
Aquala: A strong relationship is really based off of trust. It's trust and communication.
Underwriters trust agents to provide accurate information and be upfront about challenges. Agents trust underwriters to be transparent about expectations, concerns, and changing market conditions.
Those relationships matter most when conversations become difficult.
Aquala: When you receive a submission from an agency partner, you trust that all the information they're providing you is as accurate as possible. Relationships are a huge thing when it comes to agency and carrier relationships.
From the agency side, Shellie sees it the same way.
Shellie: It's totally a relationship business. It's somebody who is reaching out to us, communicating with us, not just throwing emails out to us.
We're not just another submission on their desk. It makes you feel like they care a little bit more about you. We have carriers that come through here quarterly and we have carriers that come through once every five years. The people who stop by more often and are more relationship based are the carriers that we do the most business with.
The carriers who invest in relationships often become the carriers that receive the most business.
One of my favorite moments during the discussion came when we started talking about risks that don't fit neatly into a box.
Good underwriting isn't always about saying yes or no; it's about finding solutions.
Aquala shared an example involving a building materials dealer that manufactured roof trusses. Normally, that exposure would fall outside her company's appetite. But because the agency had a strong relationship with the carrier and the operation had strong controls in place, the underwriting team took a deeper look.
Aquala: We were able to review their controls, review how much of their sales derived from that operation, and structure our terms and conditions to get comfortable with the risk.
Then she said something that perfectly captures the art of underwriting:
Aquala: You can't really go black and white when you're in middle market. That's the beauty of true underwriting.
The same concept applies from the agency side. Applications tell part of the story and conversations tell the rest.
Shellie: Sometimes you can explain details about the risk that don't come out when you're going through a rating platform. Maybe it's how long they've been in business, their loss experience, or something unique about the property.
Not everything important fits into a checkbox.
I felt like I had experienced that firsthand with some of the work that WSRB does when we evaluate fire departments. There's a set of questions that we ask them, but then you sit through the live discussions and the amount of information that comes out outside of those black-and-white questions adds so much extra context.
It's the same thing between an agent and underwriter. Not everything that's great about a risk or everything that's bad about a risk comes up in an application.
Eventually every carrier faces a situation where a class of business no longer fits its portfolio. Those conversations are never easy.
Aquala: Having those conversations with the agents sometimes don't go well. Especially if it's an important account to them.
The work involved can be substantial. A carrier may decide not to renew a class of business, forcing the agency to start searching for a new home for the account.
Shellie: Right before this discussion, I was trying to place coverage for a large commercial building under construction. One carrier required a water shutoff valve and the contractor pushed back because he'd never heard of that requirement before.
So, I went shopping for a second market. By this morning, I had two quotes in front of me and was deciding whether to choose the carrier I really wanted to place the business with or the one that came in at a better price without the stipulation.
You might have to approach 10 or 15 carriers until you even find someone that will take it, let alone at the right price.
That's why communication matters so much.
Aquala: Time is everything. We encourage our team to let agencies know as soon as humanly possible. That could be a year in advance if we see the account is going to be something that's going to be on the non-renewal list.
Shellie: You might find someone willing to take it, but it's twice as much as they paid last year. Then you have to keep going so that you can find a carrier that will take it at a more reasonable price.
The earlier an agent knows about a potential issue, the more options they have to solve it.
Toward the end of the discussion, I asked both Aquala and Shellie a simple question: why stay in insurance?
Aquala laughed and described herself as someone who "fell into" the industry. She originally wanted to do other things, but found herself working in insurance; 18 years later, she is still here.
Aquala: When you peel back those layers of the onion, we (insurance professionals) are there at the worst time for people. I've seen people lose their entire business. The insurance company is there and it’s our job to help make them whole again.
We look for ways to pay claims. We don't look for ways to deny coverage. As long as those terms and conditions are there, we're going to pay it out. That's what we're there for.
There is no other industry that I know where you have such a tight-knit community. The insurance industry is big, but it's also small, if that makes sense.
I may meet someone at a meeting and they'll say, "Oh, I know so-and-so,” and suddenly we have a mutual connection. There is no other industry that I know where you have such a tight-knit community.
Shellie: My greatest enjoyment is when I can get a policy and save someone money. That's what I like to do. If a customer comes to me and I can save them $5,000, that's a good day for me.
Like Aquala, she kept coming back to the relationships. After more than 45 years in the business, the friendships, partnerships, and professional connections remain one of the most rewarding aspects of the job.
Shellie: Insurance is not always popular when you tell someone it’s what you do. People don't always understand everything that's involved with insurance. It's a good business to be in.
Agents and underwriters often sit on opposite sides of a submission. One is advocating for the customer; the other is evaluating the risk.
But the best outcomes happen when both sides work together.
Trust. Communication. Partnership. Those themes surfaced again and again throughout our discussion.
Insurance is a people business.
At the end of the day, agents and underwriters may approach risk from different perspectives, but they're ultimately working toward the same goal: finding solutions that help customers protect what matters most.
Aquala Loyd is an Underwriting Director with EMC Insurance and has worked in the insurance industry since 2008. She began her career as an account representative for a State Farm agency before transitioning into underwriting, where she advanced from underwriter to supervisor and ultimately into leadership. Aquala also serves on WSRB's Innovation Advisory Council and is passionate about building strong partnerships between agents and carriers to help customers find the right insurance solutions.
Shellie Eubanks is an independent insurance agent and agency owner with more than 45 years of experience in the insurance industry. After spending 17 years in various agency roles, she helped establish the Smiley Agency in 1995, later purchasing the agency and expanding through the acquisition of two additional agencies in Anacortes. She is currently the co-owner of North Cascade Insurance; her agency specializes in contractors, farms, marine risks, Main Street businesses, and personal lines throughout Skagit and Island counties. Shellie is known for her customer advocacy, deep market knowledge, and commitment to finding the best coverage solutions for her clients.